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< Back NATALIE DICKMANN Mother of two (now teenagers). CAT Administrator, Trinity Laban, Freelance Ballet Teacher and Consultant at time of interview What is the most challenging aspect of working in dance and being a parent for you? I took a complete career break for 4 years after having my two children and returning to work was one of the hardest decisions I’d ever had to make. My first full time role was as a rehearsal director for a touring dance company, so finding flexible childcare was a challenge. I missed spending time with my children as well as feeling guilty for not being with them. ​ What support did you feel you had from work when you (your partner was) were pregnant? I was working as a bar and restaurant manager at the time [no direct experience regarding dance]. Was there anything that may not have been in place that you felt could have been useful? N/A [no direct experience regarding dance]. ​ Do you think being a dancer/ working in the dance industry made you think differently about your pregnancy/recovery? N/A [no direct experience regarding dance]. From your experience, what advice would you give to an expectant parent regarding leave? Take the time you feel you need, it’s different for everyone. Keep in touch with your family, friends and colleagues and ask for help if you need it. Get back to work as soon as you feel able, even if it’s just for one day a week. I lost my self-confidence and if it hadn’t been for the support of the people around me I’m not sure I’d have ever returned to dance.Although my proudest achievement are my children, it was very easy to become known as ‘B and J’s mum’ and not Natalie. If you were expected to dance postnatal (either by yourself or your employer) how did you approach your recovery? N/A [no direct experience regarding dance]. What changed most for you on your return to work? Priorities and organisation. I now have two full time jobs - being a parent AND working. People talk about ‘baby brain’, but I think it’s just that we have so much more to remember. I’m juggling my children’s diaries as well as my own. Does parenting help you in your work? Definitely. I recognise, even more now, that every single child is special and has something wonderful to offer. Through trial and error with my own children, I also fully understand how the correct use of language is very powerful. Does dance help you in your parenting? Yes, I’m surrounded by children who have a love and passion for what they do. I encourage my children to give everything a go and do what makes them happy. For me it’s important that my children have a good work ethic and hopefully I’m leading by example. ​ Do you know of any resources that already exist for parents who work in dance? No Anything else you think would be worth raising? If more companies were able to offer part-time work, flexible hours or the opportunity to work from home, I think this would be hugely beneficial to new parents. Job shares could mean that companies get the input two amazing people for the price of one. I’d love to see a mentor programme that could offer support and advice for parents or parent to be. ​ More about Natalie Natalie's professional dance career has included performing with Scottish Dance Theatre, Retina Dance Company and Koncrete Physical Theatre Company as well as being a Rehearsal Director for Tavaziva Dance Company and the Great North Run Dance Project. ​ As a freelance Ballet and Contemporary teacher, she has taught in a variety of places including The Place, Dance City, Guildford College, Italia Conti Arts Centre, First Dance Studios, Susan Handy School of Dance, St Johns Beaumont School and Dumeric School of Dance. She has recently returned to dance as the CAT Administrator at Trinity Laban. ​ ​

< Back LAURA TYE​ Mother of two. Ballet, Yoga and Postural Stability Coach, Balance Dance and Fitness, Online Ballet Syllabus What is the most challenging aspect of working in dance and being a parent for you? The most challenging part for me was the tiredness! After performances and tours I would just want to sleep but I also wanted to spend time with my family. My husband would desperately need a break from being on his own and have work to catch up on. So it always felt like we were playing catch up. What support did you feel you had from work when you were pregnant? At the time, my employer didn’t really know what to do with me! I had incredibly badmorning sickness that lasted for 8 months so I wasn’t much use to anyone. Was there anything that may not have been in place that you felt could have been useful? An alternative work placement or work experience opportunity. I actually made this for myself during my second pregnancy and asked to help out the company manager. Do you think being a dancer/ working in the dance industry made you think differently about your pregnancy/recovery? There was a lot more focus on the recovery than I feel most new mums have. I knew that if my body didn’t recover well then that could potentially end my career and loose me my income. From your experience, what advice would you give to an expectant parent regarding leave? Take the full years leave. Don’t rush back, however much you love your job and dance. You will never get that time back with your precious new baby. ​ If you were expected to dance postnatal (either by yourself or your employer) how did you approach your recovery? The first time, I rushed back and ended up injured. Second time I learnt from the first time and took things slower. Listening to my own body more than anyone else. What changed most for you on your return to work? Nothing really changed. I wish it did! I still performed all the roles that I haddanced pre-pregnancy and my work load stacked up pretty quickly. ​ Does parenting help you in your work? It helps you to be more understanding and also if you have a role that involves dramatic acting or any kind of emotion you can really go for it! It's like being a parent made me forget my inhibitions and feel emotions I'd never felt. Does dance help you in your parenting? It keeps you fit so that you can keep up with your children! Also I think you pass on the ability to be disciplined but also know how to have fun and enjoy life. ​ Do you know of any resources that already exist for parents who work in dance? I didn’t while I was dancing. Now obviously Dance Mama and PIPA are doing great things to support dancers. I wish dance companies had a closer relationship with them. Anything else you think would be worth raising? I would like to reassure other dancers that although having children and juggling a physical career is hard, it’s still the best thing I have ever done. We are however living in a world where unfortunately working mothers can be treated unfairly. Its not just in the arts, it’s across all professions. Women are being forced to choose between their careers and starting a family. This is slowly changing as more of us make this the norm in the arts. ​ I hope that ballet companies become the leaders in showing other organisations that women can be mothers and still get to the top of their field and should be appreciated for the amazing dedication, work and undeniable determination they possess. Go girls! ​ I have found Pregnant Then Screwed (Founding Director, Joeli Brearly) very helpful with free advice. Diary keeping for two children with various hobbies is quite a task and the one thing I haven’t managed to fit into our busy lives is ballet classes for them! I''m so aware that parents like me send their children to clubs and after school activities purely because it fits into family life. This is when I realised I shouldn’t have to choose teachers and classes purely based on their location and time. I want to give parents the opportunity to give children the access to professional classes created by professional dancers, when and where works for them. I thought long and hard about what I want as a parent and what I want to pass on to future dancers. I contacted Steven Monteith, former soloist with BRB who has his RAD teacher training and between us we came up with the Online Ballet Syllabus. It’s set ballet classes for various levels that are all online. It’s been created specifically so that dancers can participate at home in pretty much any space. Once the dancers feel confident with their chosen class and have worked their way through the extra tips and pointers (no pun intended) they can book an online assessment. The assessment will be judged by a professional Dancer. They will receive invaluable feedback and I believe it will be a wonderful experience. ​ More about Laura Laura was formerly a soloist ballerina at Birmingham Royal Ballet. After having her children, life as a ballet dancer became more and more of a challenge. As much as she loved her job and ballet, the constant performances and touring schedule was taking its toll. So, after 20 years of hard work and dedication, Laura felt it was time to retire and re-train. She qualified as a postural stability coach, trapeze yoga instructor and Hatha Raja yoga teacher. Alongside this she continued her love of ballet by coaching talented young dancers and co-founding the Online Ballet Syllabus. ​ See Laura in action in one of the first documentary shorts about being a parent in dance, Balance , on Amazon Prime. ​ ​

< Back MELISSA PORTER Mother of two. Yoga Instructor and former Relationship Manager, Dance for Arts Council England What is the most challenging aspect of working in dance and being a parent for you? For me, the most challenging aspect of working in dance and being a parent is making arrangements to attend performances, board meetings and meet with artists outside of “normal” working hours. I have amazing childcare for my little girl at a local nursery, but arranging care for her after 5pm if I need to see a show falls to family as my partner also often works away. What support did you feel you had from work when you (your partner was) were pregnant? The Arts Council is a fantastic employer with supportive family leave policies, including maternity, paternity and adoption. I have a number of colleagues who are parents, to either smaller children or grown up children, and I think having people around you who have been there really helps. They understand that sometimes you just have to leave at 4pm. Do you think being a dancer made you think differently about your pregnancy/recovery? I carried on with regular yoga practice right through my pregnancy, modifying postures as recommended and as required as my bump grew. Having danced right through childhood, adolescence and into my 30s I think I have strong body awareness. I think this sense of my body and self supported me during my pregnancy, labour and recovery – I intuitively knew when my body needed a bit of exercise, when to rest and the pace at which to rebuild strength by just listening and responding to my body’s needs. I can’t say that now I’ve got a busy toddler on my hands I’m quite as good at that, and I rarely have time to go to class at the moment! From your experience, what advice would you give to an expectant parent regarding leave? Don’t rush back and don’t push yourself to be the same person you were before you left. I thought I’d love being back full time, love rediscovering my pre-pregnancy self, but actually I found that after having a child my priorities and drivers changed. I am still really engaged with my work, I love watching dance and attending class but I have discovered a whole other self that also loves going for long walks with my little girl, visiting farms and rolling around in soft play. What changed most for you on your return to work? The biggest change for me on my return to work is the frequency I can get out to watch dance performances. Before returning to work my diary was full of performances right across the region and regular trips to see work in London. Now, I have to choose carefully, cross check calendars and factor in bedtime routines before buying a ticket. This is frustrating, but also makes me value my experience all the more (and also have higher expectations!). Does parenting help you in your work? I’m not sure that it does directly, but it has helped me in my general approach to work. I’m more time aware – I won’t let a meeting drag on for 90 minutes when it could be done in 45 and I’m much more reflective, particularly of other people’s needs and expectations. I think this has come as much from taking some time out from my work and then going back, as from becoming a mother. Does dance help you in your parenting? Yes, definitely. I have no inhibitions whatsoever when it comes to dancing around with my little girl and I’m sure dancing together helps build a bond. Although not dance, I came to yoga through dance and my yoga practice has also really helped me in my parenting. The same sense of self and awareness that comes through regular yoga practice has undoubtedly helped me remain calm and relaxed* as a mother (*don’t be silly, of course not all of the time). ​ ​

Interviews Interview for Dance In Mind - May 2022 My COVID19 Experience for PIPA CAMPAIGN LUCY MCCRUDDEN Sharing our experiences is greatest resource we have. ​ Mother of two. Dance Mama Founder/CEO , PhD Student, TEDx Speaker , Secretariat to the Active Pregnancy Foundation 's Scientific Advisory Board and PIPA Ambassador . Since 2014, I have been amplifying stories of parents in dance following the below, original One Dance UK article written in 2014 with my first thoughts on being a parent working in dance. ​ Parents in dance can now be supported through our Dance Mama Live workshop and webinar programme (supported by ACE and 10 national organisations), be guided through Mentor Mama sessions for an individual, group or organisation, find the latest resources (including research and articles) or enjoy reading the stories of parents in dance in roles on and off stage navigate parenthood and their careers. ​ Work in this area has developed, and you may work with parents in dance yourself. For this we founded the Parenting And Dance Network UK and Ireland , and co-Founded the International Parenting in Dance Network - both FREE to join. ​ Here's where it all began: ​ Dancing A New Routine Working in a physically demanding industry like dance brings an extra dimension to your pregnancy and parenting experience. It occurred to me pretty early on that these issues were hardly talked about, let alone supported in the formal arena. In fact Dance UK’s pregnancy factsheet was the only formal resource I knew about. I find this slightly odd, as we are an industry that has a strong female emphasis. So here I am, not as an authority by any means, but someone to put some thoughts on paper and share it with you. ​ Sharing our experiences is the greatest resource we have. I had the privilege to interview colleagues with families (including dancers, choreographers, managers, learning producers and scientists) to capture a little of their experience here – explicitly and anonymously. Hopefully, it will resonate with some, spark some discussions for others and give some ideas for those in our community who are thinking about, or have already got a family and may not have the luxury of being close to a PWID (Parent Working In Dance). ​ It occurred to me pretty early on that these issues were hardly talked about, let alone supported... ​ An immediate concern for most is the affect of pregnancy on the body. Here the One Dance UK factsheet is really useful as it gives you reassurance to trust your instincts and adapt movement as you feel is right, as well as following your medical practitioners advice. I continued to teach in the Learning and Participation team at Rambert until 7 weeks before my eldest was born. The company gave me the additional support of a fantastic Teaching Assistant. This was a win-win situation as I was able to mentor her whilst she supported me. On the whole, my colleagues who worked full-time seemed satisfied with the support during their pregnancy with enough flexibility on working responsibilities to make their time comfortable. However, there were varied experiences in the amount of understanding and empathy their colleagues had, and it feels like there could be more support for dance employers in this area. For those who were freelance at this time, they found it easier to set their own schedule, but financially much harder. There is statutory maternity support for both employed and freelance situations, and regardless of economic climate, it isn’t great. ​ Almost everyone said that being dance-trained led to greater awareness of the changes in the body during pregnancy. For some it was challenging as we are used to having so much control over our body. Rather than worrying about of ‘giving up’ our bodies to pregnancy we have to go with the flow. It seems important to emphasise the individuality of everyone’s experience at this moment, and stay open on the issue of when and whether to return to dance once your baby made his or her appearance. As Lucy Moelwyn–Hughes, Mum of two and Participation Producer at Hofesh Shechter Company so brilliantly put, ‘Make a plan. Then don’t judge yourself when you chuck it out of the window after the baby arrives and you change your mind or reality kicks in…’ ​ Being dance-trained led to greater awareness of the changes in the body during pregnancy ​ For me, my first birth was fast, but complicated, and it is taking me much longer to recover than I had originally expected. Dr Emma Redding, Mum of two and Head of Dance Science, Trinity Laban Conservatoire of Music and Dance shared, ‘After my c-section, it took 12 months of gradual training before feeling totally back to my performing self. During my second pregnancy, I danced until 5 months and then after the baby was born, I took 18 months to get back to performing.’ In fact for many their body knowledge enabled them to have a better understanding of what activity would support recovery. For Iris Tomlinson, Mum of two and Internationally Recognised Freelance Dance Artist and T’ai Chi Practitioner, her approach was continuing with ‘t’ai chi practice, introducing Pilates and a ballet barre after a couple of months.’ ​ Dads interviewed emphasised the importance of taking as much paternity leave as possible to ensure that the bond between your baby and partner is given the maximum time available. Dads can take up to 26 weeks’ paid Additional Paternity Leave – but only if the mother / co-adopter returns to work. Maria Ryan, single mother of one, and Children & Youth Dance Manager at The Place (Job Share) raised an important question, ‘If more men considered [Additional Paternity Leave] then maybe more women would be CEOs or Directors?’ ​ The biggest challenge was striking the balance between career and family. In our industry the anti-social nature of our working hours creates an increased burden on a family. For many, attending evening performances had reduced dramatically to give way to a new type of routine of the bath and bed variety. For one, the guilt of missing this special time with their children was ‘soul destroying,’ whilst the financial pressure and time-consuming organisation of childcare of this was also noted. With many nurseries closing around 6pm, a Child Minder or Nanny is the only viable option if you don’t have any friends or family living close by. For most people who have pursued a career in dance, many will have left their own parents and will find this a reality – myself included. If more men considered [Additional Paternity Leave] then maybe more women would be CEOs or Directors? - Maria Ryan ​ Although it feels that there isn’t a great amount of support, some companies are trailblazing in creating specific policies relating to pre and post-natal matters. Hofesh Shechter Company (who coincidentally became a Dad in 2012) is an example. Lucy Moelwyn–Hughes raised ‘Before the beginning of the current tour, the Technical Production Manager emailed all parents in the company with clear guidelines concerning children on tour outlining where staff were safe to be with children in a venue. The company offers an enhanced maternity and paternity policy, pre and postnatal care within our Health and Well-being Programme and on-going support for mothers to return to work.’ ​ Maria Ryan and Lia Prentaki’s (Mum of two), job share of Children & Youth Dance Manager at The Place seems to be a very practical answer to addressing the balance. For me, catching up with my friend Eleanor Dowling, Mum of one and Founder of Enerjetix helps me enormously to share best practice and ideas on how to manage part-time dance work and parenting. I am grateful to One Dance UK for giving this topic some column inches. However, there is so much to say that one article isn’t enough. Since sharing our experiences seems to be our best option in the meantime, I have created this site where you will be able to read the full interviews with colleagues who felt able to share, and you too can send in your story to be shared with others. ​ With thanks to all my contributors including, Eleanor Dowling, Lia Prentaki, Dr Emma Redding, Maria Ryan, Iris Tomlinson and those who wished to remain anonymous. ​ Written for One Dance UK (formerly Dance UK) March 2014. ​ SEE MORE STORIES JOIN

< Back KRISTINA ALLEYNE Mother of one, Alleyne Dance. Kristina will be delivering on Dance Mama Live on June 11 2023 with Dance East. In our second podcast series, #dancemama Kristina Alleyne talks about her experience being pregnant whilst co-leading, choreographing and performing in Alleyne Dance (with her twin sister), and how the company is supporting her through this transition alongside her rehearsal direction role on Akram Khan Company's Kaash. ​ ​

The Collection DANCE PAPAS MEET SOME INSPIRING DADS IN DANCE ​ ​ Read More FEDERICO BONELLI Artistic Director, Northern Ballet​ Read More TERRY HYDE​ Father of six. Phsycotherapist and founder of Counselling for Dancers. TW: @counsellingdance IG: @counsellingfordancers Read More MARC BREW Father. Artistic Director & Choreographer. TW: @marc_brew IG: @marcbrew @marcbrewcompany Read More STEVEN McRAE ​ Father of three. Principal, The Royal Ballet Lucy had the privilege of talking to #dancepapa, Steven McRae about being part of a dancing dynasty with wife who is also a Soloist for the Company, Elizabeth Harrod (part of our articles hub), working for The Royal Ballet who have a family of 3 children. Read More TOM HOBDEN​ Father of three (1 son and 2 adult step-children). Artistic Director of UNIT, choreographer, educator TW: @Tom_Hobden IG: @Tommy_hobden Read More ​ ​ Read More PHIL HULFORD​ Father of two. Freelance performer, teacher and influencer. Phil spent a decade on the road as a performer in Hofesh Schecter Company YouTube: Phil Hulford IG: @phil_Hulford Read More WAYNE SABLES Father. Filmmaker, Projection Mapper, Digital Artist, Wayne Sables Project/Fybr TW: @waynesables IG: @waynesables ​ Read More

< Back EMMA JONES​ Mother of two. Creative Producer and Freelance Dance Artist, GLive and Freelance. What is the most challenging aspect of working in dance and being a parent for you? Juggling, juggling and more juggling... As a dance artist whether you are choreographing, teaching, performing or managing dance programmes we all need that extra inspiration, something to feed our artistic voices – seeing a dance show, taking part in a dance class, meeting other dancers…. I can’t do that as much anymore – in fact it’s very rare nowadays as its mainly unsociable hours and I am a single parent of two girls. I use to watch a professional dance show at least 2 – 3 times a month and take part in professional dance classes two or three times a week and I can’t do that anymore – the cost of dance classes and a babysitter just makes it so difficult. I suppose one of the plus sides to not being able to see a show so often is that when I do - it’s a very special experience – like I’m seeing dance for the first time again. Perhaps before it just became so regular it lost that special edge somehow. Saying no. Dance is in my blood and so I am a yes person – of course I can get my leg higher, of course I can get across the stage in two jetes, I have a can-do attitude - nothing is insurmountable…. Not being able to do everything has been a hard thing to accept, to not be at that rehearsal or oversee that project. But in all of this I have found a very refreshing (and fun!) balance between work, play and girls. Moving to a new area two years ago and starting a new school for my eldest has brought along with it an amazing group of friends and support network so much so that I’ve found myself on my own (childless and workless!) in a hot yoga studio thanks to these friends... But, admittedly, being more active, being in a studio and feeling those gorgeous aches and pains I use to get a lot, makes me miss it even more – but I have to accept that while I may not be able to do it all – I can still do it – but just perhaps a bit differently in this chapter of my life. What support did you feel you had from work when you were pregnant? I was pregnant with both of my girls when I was the Dance Education Manager for Swindon Dance and I had lots of support. Part of my role was to teach and choreograph every day to ages 8 – 18 years old. For both pregnancies I continued teaching right up until 9 months. That was my choice – if I needed to stop my employer would have supported me but I felt physically able and fit enough to do and I still loved it. I took part in professional dance classes too during both pregnancies – I just couldn’t jump as high towards the end! I took my first born with me to many of my work events – she got to go back stage and be looked after by the dancers while I staged managed the shows out the front, she got to watch rehearsals and so many dance shows both professional and youth – she’s quite the culture vulture now. Both children when they were in my tummy got to tour across the South West and be my side kick at so many dance festivals and high profile events. Just these last two weeks I have had to take my girls to my dance rehearsal in the evening – that’s not possible for everyone and I wouldn’t cross the boundaries of being unprofessional – but they are well behaved girls and more often than not they join in. I think they are both very lucky to have had this opportunity. My current employer is very supportive so on the times when I haven’t managed to get child care they come to work and watch the shows. This week they are watching a technical rehearsal of a piece created by New Adventures – it’s doesn’t get better than that! I work with young people who will enter their adult lives and would have never stepped foot in a professional theatre or dance studio and here are my two aged 6 and 3 years and they have been to countless shows. It's important for me to ration this though – as they may get complacent – plus they may think that mummy’s work is all fun and not hard work at all...then I will be in trouble! Was there anything that may not have been in place that you felt could have been useful? Perhaps someone to tell me its ok not to do everything – it comes back to that acceptance thing – that things have changed as you have one or two or three little people – but we all get that whether we are in dance or not? I suppose now what I would appreciate more than anything in my work place is perhaps a fitness class, or something that can be done in work time / lunch time so you can continue your artistry and not have it hindered by the inability to get to a dance class in the evening as you have your children. But that’s very much from a single person’s perspective because I can’t do that if I wanted. But again, it’s all about changing a mindset, not looking at what you cant do, but looking at what you can do with the situation you have so I am setting up some teaching that will fit around me and my work / life balance. Do you think being a dancer/ working in the dance industry made you think differently about your pregnancy/recovery? Yes absolutely – you understand your body, what its capabilities are, its limits and when it needs rest. You understand weight distribution, so the bigger the belly got, the taller you stood and pulled up! You also have this unspoken internal strength – muscle and mind – and both came into play when I was pregnant and in my recovery. After my first baby I was physically fit, went straight back to work and teaching after four months – I didn’t feel much different (I just had match sticks in my eyes to keep them open!). I had a C-Section with my second baby and I remember waking up afterwards and panicking that I couldn’t move very well, that I couldn’t stand up or walk. I’m not one for sitting still so it did come as a bit of a shock – but I was pretty mobile and even the health visitor commented on this and I certainly attribute it to being a dancer / or training as a dancer as I was physically fit. One month after I had her I performed on stage for a very special event. That was mind over muscle definitely. I made the choice to do it no one forced me...its was my heart leading my head…perhaps not the best idea, but I love performing. Now 3 years on from the last birth all I know is that things just feel a little different. I haven’t trained as much at all, in fact hardly ever but I’ve started teaching again and I may adapt things here and there until I get my dance strength back up. From your experience, what advice would you give to an expectant parent regarding leave? Wow, this is hard, its all hindsight isn’t it but I would say just enjoy the now, each day and what it brings you. But unfortunately, circumstances don’t always allow a mother to have a lengthy maternity leave, especially if you are freelance and that was the case for me. I wouldn’t change what I did as I got the best of both worlds in some way. Although I admit with my first baby, being away from her and working full time was tough. I use to literally run home from work and miss near fatal accidents just to squeeze her and bath her. But my boss at the time was incredible – she told me on a couple of occasions to just stay at home and enjoy my baby for an extra hour that day and work it off another time. In dance you work so much overtime that it was justified. I suppose therefore what I would advise is be honest with someone at work if you just need that extra hour with your baby because you want to see them have their first taste of cucumber or you just want one last cuddle! I had a bit longer with my second baby and I freelanced before going full time again. But again, my balance has had to shift again as it was hard to work a full-time job with my two little ladies in tow. Now I work sort of part time – 30ish hours a week and I am ok with that. A friend of mine said to me only recently, they are only young once, enjoy them. We have all heard that before, we all say it to other people but I really took this in and I am glad that I have had to scale back my hours – it doesn’t mean that I am achieving any less – in fact I am probably achieving more – just in a very different way. I have time to jump back into a contemporary class – years ahead of me – age isn’t a number to so while I approach the big 40 I look forward to dancing across the next 40 years! ​ If you were expected to dance postnatal (either by yourself or your employer) how did you approach your recovery? I wasn’t expected to at all – I was supported if I wanted to but not expected. It was gentle steps back into it – again it goes back to the mind and I suppose heart – it’s having that acceptance that your body may want to do things it can’t at that moment and understanding that in time it will. It's understanding that in some cases women have had very serious surgery – especially in my case with the C-section. I didn’t even consider it to be an operation at all until someone just mentioned it in passing – so why would I expect my knee to flex straight away if I had just broken it? It needs time to heal and time to strengthen. It’s the same principles. What changed most for you on your return to work? Ha I can juggle more things at once than I thought humanly possible – but one of the hardest things to juggle can be yours or your children’s emotions. If you drop them off to childcare and they are screaming for you and you have to walk away – there isn’t a moment in the day you don’t wonder if they are ok. Deep down you know they are, but it can really sit with you. And returning to work – my emotions hit me very hard with my first baby and I didn’t address these at the time. I wasn’t confident enough to be open about this and accept that it was ok to feel emotional. I do think now I work smarter not harder... it doesn’t mean I don’t work hard, I just have less time so I need to prioritise, time manage and be decisive. The excitement towards the end of the day or the end of the workshop when you collect your bags and go home to see your babies – being mummy...the difference though is actually your down time, rest, mental extraction from work – it doesn’t always happen as you have little people to be with and help. Maybe work has taken on a new meaning. It isn't a thing I did for me anymore – it’s for me and my two girls. In the dance industry dance is your life, so to compartmentalise it as ‘work’ and ‘mummy’ which is sometimes defined by hours is still a challenge for me. ​ Does parenting help you in your work? Yes I make better coffees at work…..they are hot! Yes my work is a lot of negotiating; contracts, fees, partners, young people, artists and funders and my children test my negotiation skills to the max. My jobs over the last 12 years have always entailed delivering multi-layered and complex projects that brings together people from all walks of life, so I feel I understand how to work with people and get the best out of them as I often think about how I would like a person in my role to approach my children now or in the future. Does dance help you in your parenting? Ha yes. In my roles as a teacher and dance manager and producer I troubleshoot a lot and I troubleshoot a lot at home when Barbie doesn’t want to play with her unicorn horse (obviously I mean one sister doesn’t want to play with the other). Especially as a teacher you learn so many ways of approaching a situation...I give my girls creative solutions to a problem, allow them to think and find their answers. I also understand that my two children are two very different souls and how they understand and learn things or approach a situation – one is a kinaesthetic learner and likes to be physically shown something and the other is an audio learner who wants me to talk her through everything– so I understand how my ‘teaching’ strategies’ can help the outcome of the Barbie debacle! When I use to teach 30 boys aged 7 – 10 years I developed the most effective behavioural strategies, and these come into play at home all the time. ​ Do you know of any resources that already exist for parents who work in dance? I don't know any at all. ​ More about Emma Emma trained professionally at Northern School of Contemporary Dance and has over 20 years experience in the industry as a performer, teacher, choreographer, education manager and producer for numerous companies and organisations. ​ She is currently a freelance dance artist in Surrey and Creative Producer for Farnham Maltings. Her specialisms include training and developing young dancers and dance practitioners, producing and project managing large scale dance events and festivals across England. ​ ​

< Back TOM HOBDEN​ 'Define your role as you become a parent.' Father of three (1 son and 2 adult step-children). Artistic Director of UNIT, choreographer, educator TW: @Tom_Hobden IG: @Tommy_hobden Tom took part in Season 1 of Dance Mama Live, FREE when you sign up to our site. What is the most challenging aspect of working in dance and being a parent for you? The problem for me is working on a project basis, meaning that I’m both away and here a lot. I think parenting for me really seems to be about consistency, and that’s something that I struggle to offer – other than consistency of being reasonably random. Now, when F was much younger I was particularly consistent. I did shape my whole portfolio career around the family; making sure that I was home at dinner times, making sure that I was there for at least three or four of the school pick-ups and being there the for the majority at weekends, when I could be. But I really wanted to be there, and I knew that by the time he was about 11 or 12, I could start to let off a little bit more and go further afield. So, I don’t feel there was any sense of restriction, I wanted to be there, I wanted to invest in them and be around them, but that is a real difficulty (if you like) of being a parent working in this way. What support did you feel you had from work when your partner was pregnant? People were just excited for me really, but because I was a freelancer I think that people felt that it was something to do with ‘my life’ and that it wasn’t particularly something they had to get overly involved in. I couldn’t tell you that I had specific areas of support for it, I think that people just gave me allowances for being tired, and being a little scatty or a little bit later with email chains or planning of classes. It was kind of a simpler career in the early days. And now, people are reasonably aware that I have a child. They will categorically know if I say, “I am with F,” not to expect anything of me. So, I think people are pretty resilient/open around it. What support did you feel you had from work when you were on paternity leave? Because of my freelance lifestyle, ‘paternity leave’ didn’t really exist for me. What I chose to do however was to take loads of time off, and I actually, probably had far more [paternity] time than anyone else would have done. I worked around my wife so I would be around and do loads to support as much as I could. There were a number of mornings that I remember that were particularly challenging on those days that I worked, but knowing I had time at home two days later with F again made everything much easier. Also, we had two step-children (both adults now) as well, so they added into the support of the family. It wasn’t like we were totally on our own most of the time doing it, actually it was being shared between quite a few of us. I think most of the systems around leave are geared up for females, and perhaps rightly so. I don't remember feeling any support as father other than from my immediate family and friends. I definitely felt that I wanted to be a key role in his life, so we initially set up 50/50 responsibility, then more with L when she was breastfeeding and then perhaps more with me as he became older. Sadly, L suffered from post-natal depression, so I really kicked-in for quite some time whilst she was in recovery and healing from that. But as a freelancer you just don’t particularly think ‘how will my employer look after me’, you just think, ‘how do I look after myself?’. I always make contingency plans, so it was about me and my business and finding a way to look after the family. ​ Was there anything that may not have been in place that you felt could have been useful? I had read quite a lot about childbirth at the time, and most of those books are geared up for women and only a couple specifically for men, and I found those particularly useful. I think one of them was ‘A blokes guide to pregnancy’ or something like that, and it was a lot of funny stories, how you can support your partner and about how you can best support your children. In the very early days I remember feeling initially isolated from the process of parenting, a bit of loose end, but once L started showing signs of post-natal depression our roles flipped and I was non-stop parenting. ​ Do you think being a dancer/ working in the dance industry made you think differently about your pregnancy/recovery? We were really aware about L’s body initially, where it was, how it was transitioning, and where she would like it to be and how I may or may not be able to support that. We were both really working a lot in the fitness and dance industries, so I think we had a really strong awareness of how I could support her through that. I don’t think we felt at all in the dark about what we should and could be doing. So we just took our time, and went through the exercises as she wanted to, to be able to get back to near where she was before pregnancy. From your experience, what advice would you give to an expectant parent regarding leave? Make your own plans. There is not a lot of support for a Dad initially, best to support your partner through the process. Be aware that you may feel out on a limb or a bit extra, and maybe you have to figure out your roles at the time – what you feel you’re going to share, so you feel that your really equally contributing. Because your time will come. You’re going to share your children throughout your life and it’s going to be backwards and forwards – sometimes Dad’s going to be more important and Mum’s going to be more important, and then both of you are going to be important. So, not to feel terribly guilty at the beginning if it’s one or the other because the time will come. And you will really find and define your role as you become a parent as you’re moving along. ​ What changed most for you on your return to work? I love being a parent and I just become more and more aware of being with babies and little people and having empathy for all the parents out there in my classes and work places. You never know what it’ll be like till you do it and it's certainly tough, especially when they don’t sleep. ​ Does parenting help you in your work? It [parenting] absolutely feeds everything I do in terms of my creativity; the way I look at the world, the way I create dances and it gives me a really strong connection to people of different ages. If you have young children in front of you and then you work with young children yourself, I've found you can have a really strong connection to what they’re interested in. It made me a much better teacher. All the [choreographic] work that I make is hugely around the ideas of family, because that’s what I’m passionate about. I think in contemporary dance ‘family’ is underrepresented, so I really wanted to put that voice out there, because of my experience of it, and because of my own blended family it felt like quite a unique place to understand all of that. Does dance help you in your parenting? I’m just really creative with my kids and my family, that’s all. And I try to keep things as open as possible. All the things that I feel that are missing in normal education I have in my own [professional] experience, so I try and fill those needs. So, we go to do a lot of cultural things together – not specifically in dance. We could go to the theatre, galleries, circus - anything that can show another version of the world I think the other thing is that dance has extraordinarily different people in it, and I have always made a point of bringing all of my children to those people (if they want to). If they want to meet somebody new or different they have never met before then we do that. I wouldn’t say my dance technique has helped them. I’ve taught dance to all of them - they’ve all been in projects at some point and all of them have enjoyed it at that moment, but none of them have particularly wanted to dance. I haven’t pushed them to do that. I think they have to find their own way in life. Find whatever passion it is they want to follow. ​ Do you know of any resources that already exist for parents who work in dance? Just PiPA that’s all and that feels quite new to me as well. I have perhaps felt a little disconnected from these organisations as the focus appears to be on support of younger children and families. With F being a teenager, I know I still need extra support as a parent especially with key rehearsal times. ​ In my experience teenagers might not want you to be there all of the time with them, but you have to be there, ready for them whenever they are having a crisis. The questions that come out of their mouths can be challenging, and they will always come in moments you’re doing a rehearsal. Whenever you’re stressed, they’ll pick that up, add it to their own stress and feed it back to you. So, I’ve had a number of times where I’ve had performances, deadlines to meet or funding applications to write where suddenly one child will go down and I've needed to deal with that immediately – there’s nothing you can do. Anything else you think would be worth raising? I felt it was really important that I wanted to do this, because I didn’t really see hundreds of fathers in dance. I certainly didn’t see any fathers who were young in dance, and I felt that it was really important to get another voice out there, just to say we're here! ​ More about Tom Tom is a choreographer, dance educator, mentor and national leader in community dance practice. He is most known for his unending energy, enthusiasm and ability to work and connect with anyone. Tom has had the pleasure in leading and supporting work for organisations including: New Adventures, DanceEast, Royal Ballet School, Ballet Boyz, Stopgap Dance, Studio Wayne Mc Gregor, Gecko Theatre, ISTD, Trinity Laban, Suffolk Art link, Dance United, Suffolk University. Tom has also collaborated with artists including: Alex Whitley, Matthias Spurling, Tom Dale, New Art Club, Darren Ellis, Etta Murfitt, amongst others. Tom was associate artist at Theatre Royal Bury St Edmunds and DanceEast from 2015 – 2017, a Clore graduate in June 2017 and a Questlab artist for Studio Wayne McGregor 2018/19. http://www.weareunit.co.uk 2020

ARTS "Motherhood is as creative an act as performing; both require real patience, intuition and love." READ Stories Miaomiao Yu - Music Mama Praise Sarah West-Valstar - Participation Mama Hannah Young - Actor Mama Ruth Crilly - Model Mama Praise Caroline Sheen - Musical Theatre Mama Praise Director - The Wedding Crecherz

RUTH CRILLY MODEL MAMA Entrepreneur; A Model Recommends, COLAB and The Night Feed App " Flexible working for parents is becoming much more of a possibility now that people aren’t so tied to a physical workplace - numerous blogs and influencers talk about how they have been allowed to work from home and that high-speed internet, conferencing calls, video calls and social media have made it possible to work remotely. For many industries, however, this isn’t possible - dancing, sports, acting, modelling, all require a physical presence and I think that Lucy’s research and writing in this field will prove to be both an invaluable resource and an important expansion on the current flexible working campaigning." THE NIGHT FEED APP A MODEL RECOMMENDS

RESOURCES Contributors Map Compiling all our experts and specialists in one place so you can find them fast! ​ ​ TAKE ME TO THE MAP NEW! RESEARCH Science & more Research papers, articles and projects from leading scientists and organisations Read More ARTICLES Response Publish articles in the media by Dance Mamas and for Dance Mamas Read More BOOKS Great Next Reads Book recommendations for help on being a parent working in dance Read More Know Your Rights Maternity Rights - GOV.UK Rights at work as a freelancer - Pregnant Then Screwed Rights in maternity leave and pay - Pregnant Then Screwed Organisations ADVOCACY One Dance UK ​ The UK body for dance, and the sectors leading support organisation. ​ Dance Mama Founder, Lucy McCrudden, is a member. VISIT CAMPAIGN PIPA Campaign ​ Conducting extensive research across theatre, dance and music to support working parents. ​ Dance Mama Founder, Lucy is an Ambassador VISIT CAREERS Dancers Career Development Supporting dancers to successfully transition into alternative careers. ​ DCD have supported the Dance Mama Live! event VISIT Active Pregnancy Foundation The Active Pregnancy Foundation aims to remove traditional barriers and social stigmas, ensuring there is easily accessible provision in expertise, information and support for women who choose to be active throughout pregnancy and motherhood. ​ As a charity the Active Pregnancy Foundation intends to normalise active pregnancies, and have been instrumental in the development of Chief Medical Officer approved guidelines for pre and postnatal activity in the UK. ​ They have the latest guidance on COVID-19 advice for pre and postnatal women, an online directory of activity and more brilliant research. ​ In 2021 they are guest on both the professional development and general public strands of Dance Mama Live! and Lucy contributed to their 'Find Your Active' dancing guide (pictured) supported by Sport England. ​ Dance Mama Founder, Lucy McCrudden, is also Secretariat to the charity's Scientific Advisory Board. ​ GUIDE: FIND YOUR ACTIVE - DANCING DANCE MAMA LIVE! APF SITE APF counselling for dancers Terry Hyde MA MBACP is a Psychotherapist/Counsellor who founded Counselling for Dancers recognising that the dance population needs specific mental health support. ​ Terry is a retired performer and a #dancepapa - you can read his story here, and visit his site. TERRY'S STORY VISIT SITE Dance Professionals Fund are the leading UK charity offering financial assistance for individuals during their dance careers and into retirement. VISIT SITE

< Back INGRID MACKINNON​ Mother of one. Movement Director, Choreographer and Educator, www.ingridmackinnon.com Ingrid delivers a workshop in Season 1 of Dance Mama Live . Available for FREE when you sign up to our site. What is the most challenging aspect of working in dance and being a parent for you? It would be time and finances. I feel that the working hours for artists can be very tricky for parents but we don’t make enough money to be able to afford additional care. I always find myself having to leave a rehearsal early or asking for slightly alternative working times to accommodate being a parent. What support did you feel you had from work when you were pregnant? I didn’t really stop while I was pregnant. I was teaching dance and Pilates as well as working as a rehearsal director. To top it off, I was still studying my MA at Royal Central School of Speech and Drama. Everyone around me was supportive in the sense that they encouraged me to slow down if I wanted to, but I think everyone could clearly see that I liked to keep moving so I was left to do so. I appreciated that. Was there anything that may not have been in place that you felt could have been useful? Nothing specific from anyone that I worked with, but I generally felt a lack of other new mothers who worked in my field. I most likely would have benefitted from talking to other dance artist mothers beforehand to share tips etc. The mothers that I befriended just before my son was born and just afterwards are some of the most important relationships. I will always cherish them, but I would have also loved a space for artist moms as well. I wouldn’t have felt so crazy bringing my son to rehearsal if I had seen more parents doing it. Do you think being a dancer/ working in the dance industry made you think differently about your pregnancy/recovery? Yes and no. I definitely have much more awareness and tools at my disposal with regards to body care. I knew how strong I was and felt very comfortable continuing my work with adjustments as I went along, and my bump grew. But after my emergency caesarean, I wasn’t as quick as I thought I would be to get back my six pack. I’ve actually been slowly rediscovering my body as a mother and reframing my idea of fit and beautiful. I’ve had a lot of inappropriate comments about my body in the past five years. It’s amazing because as a dancer your body almost never really belongs to you and becoming a mother, I had to really work hard on loving the skin I was in, stretch marks and all. But I know this is linked to my transition from the stage to a movement director and creative collaborator in the room. I can appreciate that it’s a different journey if you are returning to the stage but hopefully the strength of pregnancy and recovery allows space for more body positive comments and less talk about “snatching back into shape”. ​ What changed most for you on your return to work? The thing that changed most for me on my return to work was all of a sudden I had boundaries. Before motherhood, I feel like I would do anything at any time. Boundaries didn’t really exist or at least they were forever shifting. Now I try to be clear about what I need and I am working on being clear about my boundaries due to practical needs like childcare as well as emotional needs such as time away from my son especially when he was even younger. I don’t think we should wait until we are parents for this, it should be encouraged from the start of your career. ​ Does parenting help you in your work? Absolutely, I feel that I as a teacher I’m much more patient and understanding. I have to be careful not to ‘mother’ my students but I certainly teach with much more care than before. Does dance help you in your parenting? I can drop into a killer kitchen freeze dance party in seconds. But my son has all of the cool moves in our house, my CV gets me nowhere, and I love it! ​ Do you know of any resources that already exist for parents who work in dance? Parents and Carers in Performing Arts Campaign (PIPA) Anything else you think would be worth raising? I had three women who were so encouraging and supportive in my return back to work. Jacky Lansley, Ayse Tashkiran and Vicki Igbokwe. All three literally held my hand (and at times held my child) and welcomed me back to the studio. I will always be grateful for that care. My wish is that all dance parents have that kind of gentle support during such a huge transition, it can really make all the difference. It did for me. ​ More about Ingrid Ingrid Mackinnon is a London based movement director, choreographer, teacher and dancer. Movement direction credits include Hamlet (RCSSD), First Encounters: The Merchant of Venice (RSC) and #WeAreArrested (Arcola/RSC). She currently teaches dance and actor movement at the Guildhall School, Royal Central School of Speech and Drama, London Studio Centre and Mountview. Ingrid is co-founder of MoveSpace and holds an MA in Movement: Directing & Teaching from Royal Central School of Speech and Drama. ​ ​